Which preamps for my set ?

[blues10]

Hi everyone,
First try on this board :)

I just bought an empty BAE 6 spaces rack and I need to feed it ...
I'm looking for a preamp pair to record electric guitars. The mics are beyer M69 and Neumann U89. and another couple for bass (with an M88) and vocals.
I alreday have a 3124, an UA 2-610 and a Langevin DVC for the drum set and room.
I'm looking for a vintage rock sound...

So please, share your knowledge with a poor lunchbox beginer :D
what would be your advice to match my set-up ?

[LunchBoxHero]

Hi, welcome and thanks for joining :)

well, e guitars... I can say that two of my faves are the pacifica - three dimensional sound with convincing bottom, and I have grown to love the EM Blue, both as a DI and for micing up marshall cabs. It is also a great pre for some vocalists. It has this wonderful sparkle to it that I have found nowhere else. Nickel xformer at work I guess!

I know many swear by the API 512 for electric guitars. I have used and loved them for that, but i must admit to not owning one at present.

Finally, and perhaps my fave at the moment, is Jens-built Eisen DIY, and I believe Jens has a new batch of DIY MK II kits coming out soon. Although I don't use the DI much, the pre itself is great, warm and thick, for e guitars. purple op-amp in there.

If you can't build them yourself there are sure to be some builders offering them for sale (maybe even on the forums here) and they can be great.

There are so many great ones out there, check out the 500 Series DB (http://www.lunchboxhero.com/500seriesdb.html), sort by "Type" and best of luck feeding your lunchbox!

[blues10]

Thanks for reply,
Pacifica seems to be the first choice for a lot of people ... I never had the chance to listen to this pre.

I'm not good with DIY stuff, and most of the times, components changes from a kit to another ...

A friend of mine have 4 512c, it's cool stuff, but i'm looking for something may be darker and with a huge low mids (nevish tone ?)

What do you think of Vintage design 581 or the Shadow hill stuff ?

[LunchBoxHero]

A friend of mine have 4 512c, it's cool stuff, but i'm looking for something may be darker and with a huge low mids (nevish tone ?)

What do you think of Vintage design 581 or the Shadow hill stuff ?

I haven't used those two yet but for that tone, i would say a contender surely would be the Avedis MA5. It is a really great pre, and I have one, i did not think of it for the previous post because I happen to have not tracked guitars with it yet.

I have been using it on vocals a lot and it certainly is very "nevish". From what i can tell it is a little thicker in the lower mids than a 512c, and very robust in the low end. :D

[Denyle]

I was indoctrinated into the lunchbox club with a BAE rack and a BAE 312A w/ the Avedis 1122 opamp. Now that I've owned quite a few others, I still think the 312A would be the one I'd choose if I could only have one. I think it's especially nice on guitars, bass & drums and I wouldn't have any problem stacking 20 tracks with this one pre. Now, I do like others better for specific purposes and with certain mics. As a do-all pre though, I like the 312A.
OTOH, the MP-500NV would be my choice if I didn't normally gravitate towards the API sound. I foolishly parted with mine to make room for other things. And since you seem to want a darker pre, so I'd say go for the Great River.

[LunchBoxHero]

I think the recommendation on the great river is a good one too, although I don't have one, i believe the Eisen that I have (and recommended), was spec built by Jens for a customer that was seeking a "great riverish" pre. It's dark. :)

[gm5k]

i strongly recommend the Atlas Pro Audio Juggernaut. my favorite pre I've ever used on electric guitar. I've used P1's, Eisen "Neveish's", OSA L3's(which are all AMAZING on electric guitar btw, can't go wrong with any of these) and more...but the Atlas was the winner for me, barely edging out my Eisen. this was one comparison though, and it was for a very heavy sound...so take that for what it's worth.

if huge low mids with attitude is what you're looking for, I'd say the Juggernaut with the iron transformer engaged is a great option. you can control the darkness of the pre to some extent as well as well with the impedance control. amazingly versatile preamp.

[blues10]

Thanks for all these suggestions.

The great river was one of my first choice but, it takes two slots, and I only have 6 of them :), that's why I changed my mind for a Vintage design 581...

I think I gonna try the BAE 312A. I already have the API 3124+ and, at least, the BAE will match the API for drums or bass ...

[pan60]

i would say a A-Designs P-1 cause it just works on any and everything.
a EM-RED as it just seems every one love it for electric guitar, or another P-1.
for bass, my go to is the Great River MP-500NV.
:D

[blues10]

Actually, I've find a thread on another board with a comparison between a LOT of 500 pres.
After listening to the files concerning e-guitars (my fisrt need), the Mono Gamma and the BAE 312a are my favourites.
Since the MG is more expensive and as I already have 4 API 312, I thing I gonna bye 2 312a to start my 500box... ;)

PS: I apologize for my poor english :( I hope it is still understandable

[pan60]

i am going to guess i know which other forum you are talking about.
i would strong suggest you not place to much valued on the posted samples.
1 ) it was not a very scientific shootout.
2 ) the gain structures are not well matched.
3 ) the vocalists performance my very one one pre to another, not to mention head movement and the how proximity effect will come into play on any given mic.
4 ) the ROOM!!!!!!!!!!
5 ) the ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6 ) the mood, environment and surroundings.
7 ) the moon: )~
really i own or have had in most of the pres in that shootout and what you are hearing ( IMHO ), is not a great representation of just what these pres are capable of.
really these are all amazing pres and any would be awesome for doing any project, but you really should audition a few for your self rather than base you choice on the shoot out.
i own the MANO GMAMA and although i think it is nice, it would not be at the top of my list for electric guitar, although i feel it would sound great.
their will be more of a scientific approach to the 500 format pre comparisons, but it is still a bit in the future.

do some searching and find a dealer that will allow you to try several of the pre's
:D:eek::D

[blues10]

Thanks for reply!
I heard that there was a lot of issues on this test (espacially the room :) ) but the BAE is so massive on e-guitars and as I said, it will at least match my API's for over applications.

About the mono gama: the choice of the transformer would allow me to record bass amps, e-guitars, or something else I need to record "live".

I need to record drums, bass and 1 or 2 guitars at the same time, sometimes a keyboard ...

I live in France (and not in Paris) and it's very difficult to try some gear, espacially 500 series which are quite new and unknown here :). That's why I need some shootouts and some advices ....

Thnaks once again for this website :)

[pan60]

it sucks when you can not audition or hear gear for yourself.
i have been in that very situation, and never liked it.
i use to live in a somewhat remote location and getting shop to even ship me gear was at times a pain, so i can feel for you.
these are all great pres so no matter what you choose i think you will be happy! :D

[Denyle]

Clips are always fun but generally useless to everyone except the person making the clips. I considered posting a few clips of various compressors but then I thought about how difficult it would be to do something meaningful.

Anyway, have you considered the Avedis MA5? I didn't suggest it before because I haven't put mine through it's paces yet. From what I can tell so far, it's colorful, woolly and dark and subjectively sounds more vintage-y than the Great River.

[blues10]

My short list for pres is:

1. BAE 312a (since I already have 4 API 312)
2. Mono gamma for versality in 1 box
3. MA5

but 2 and 3 are more expensive (I just bought a 24 channels converter, the BAE rack, 2 oktava MK012, 2 beyer M69, and I still have to buy a SPL vol2 or a Dangerous Music D-Box for monitoring) The pres will come in june :)

[cww2]

I'm in that quandry myself. I have 6 APIs (4 512b, 2 512c) - and 2 Great River pres. 10 space rack plus a 6 space lunchbox. 2 of the API's stay in the lunchbox, which leaves 2 open slots in the 10 space rack.

Without being able to audition too many units - which direction to go to comliment what I have... Juggernaut looks intriguing - as do the Purples and Chandlers.....

[blues10]

The chandler looks nice, but it seems that there's power issues. On their website, they say that it will not work with all the power supplies, including lunchboxes. May be, if your 10 space rack is full, it will not work properly ?

[pan60]

The chandler looks nice, but it seems that there's power issues. On their website, they say that it will not work with all the power supplies, including lunchboxes. May be, if your 10 space rack is full, it will not work properly ?

no not really issues with power consumption, just the possibilities of some noise if to close to some transformers.
transformers emit a field which can cause noise, thus the recommendation not to use it in a rack or lunchbox with a internal power supply.

[blues10]

OK, sorry for the misunderstanding ....

[pan60]

from what i have seen, when the word power is mention everyone assumes consumption to be the issue.
i think a few possibly do not read the whole threads ( some can get long as we all know ), i miss quote things then rumors get spread, and on and on.

this is true for just about anything so always feel free to ask! :D
one of us around here my have some info.

[Denyle]

no not really issues with power consumption, just the possibilities of some noise if to close to some transformers.
transformers emit a field which can cause noise, thus the recommendation not to use it in a rack or lunchbox with a internal power supply.

Just throwing this out there, wouldn't it solve the problem to put the Germ in slot 1. A toroidal that size shouldn't emit EMI very far.

If it's color you want, I've been using the MA5 for a few weeks now and I'm perfectly comfortable recommending it for e. guitars. I'm mostly using it with a M260 or Naked Eye mic.

[pan60]

Just throwing this out there, wouldn't it solve the problem to put the Germ in slot 1. A toroidal that size shouldn't emit EMI very far.


as i understand, some have done exactly that with no issues.
i personally have not, so do not take it as gospel. :eek:

[blues10]

I think the MA5 will be in my box ... But, as I said, it's almost impossible to try this kind of gear here in Marseille. I hope I will not be disapointed ...
Anyway, I still have to wait for money :) the SSL coverter is not free :D